For Rosie by Max Ruddock - Drama - An alcoholic bareknuckle fighter makes one last desperate attempt to make up with his estranged daughter before it's too late. 91 pages - pdf format

Writer interested in feedback on this work

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All the scripts loaded today seem to be.

Life Begins and Diamond downloaded fine for me. Anyone else?

All of the recently uploaded scripts are visible for me except for 'M.A.S.K.' and 'For Rosie'.

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Fixed.

Don

I suspect that you're a real screenwriter masquerading as an amateur. To what end, who knows.  Three things to consider here.  One, change the title.   Two, favor an older Claire to serve as a contrast to Tanya.  Attractive single mother, wary of losers but open to transactional sex as a prescription to failed relationships (in other words, Tanya's future if she continues with Meph).  Three, include intimate sex scene between Meph and Tanya just before she learns that he has resumed fighting; her disappointment here would have been more dramatic.   When I read the piece, I had envisioned Caleb Landry Jones in the role of Meph, would be interesting to hear your thoughts.  All the same -- great read and definitely GreenLight material!

Hi Leslie,

Haha I wish I was a real screenwriter masquerading as an amateur, that would be great!

Thanks for taking the time to read it and give me feedback. Massively appreciate it! Do you have anything up on here? I'd like to return the favour.

Interesting feedback too. Funny you mentioned the name. I've struggled with it (and the log-line too) from the very first draft. It actually used to be a bit longer but sounded way too pretentious. Not to say this name isn't pretentious, but it's only half as pretentious as before haha... What I'd like is something that encapsulates its main element, but without sounding too on the nose.

Interesting take on Clair/Tanya too. Hadn't thought about it like that at all but I will now when it comes to the next draft. I've had quite a bit of feedback on this so far from writer friends and from the BBC Writer's Room and that wasn't something that had been mentioned.

I had no idea who that Caleb guy was so I googled him. Not sure what his acting style is like but looks-wise he is spot on! When I was working on it I had an image of young(ish) Toby Kebble as my desktop wallpaper, but that Caleb guy is even better.

Thanks again Leslie, you made my day!

Max

Hi EC/Leslie,

I noticed you've changed your name since you posted.

If you're still on here, mind if I ask what gender you are? Leslie is a unisex name, right? So I wasn't sure.

But rereading your feedback got me thinking that what you pointed out was quite different from anyone else I've had feedback off (friends, BBC), and I wondered if it could be, broadly speaking of course, down to gender.

I've only had feedback off guys so far, and it tends to be stuff like "more fights, yeah more fighting"... Nobody had yet said what you said about building the romantic element. Which got me thinking that if you are a gal, then I should probably get more women to read my stuff to get a better spread of ideas. Sounds stupid, but that had never occurred to me before.

Hope I haven't come across as a massive sexist saying that haha

Thanks again for the read.

Max

Betta Fish

Max - read a few pages.

Quoted Text EXT. FARM FIELDS - SLAUGHTER HOUSE - NIGHT Flickers of light escape through corrugated walling.

From the first header and the action that follows in subsequent scenes, I don’t know if this is an actual slaughter house (my first impression) or a building called the slaughter house – my second impression.

However. After page one, I’m still not clear on this. I think you need to clarify. Maybe it's just me.

Quoted Text INT. SLAUGHTER-HOUSE - NIGHT A mass of MEN huddle closely at its center. Glimpses of barbarity. Teeth tearing at flesh. A head rammed into the blood soaked ground. INT. SLAUGHTER-HOUSE - SIDE-ROOM - NIGHT The crowd’s roar reverberates through. Thirsty for blood. A MAN kneels beside a wall, steadies his hand and carefully thumbs pressure on to the end of a syringe. The substance takes effect. His body goes limp and he falls back against the wall. His leg starts to thrash. Two HEAVIES enter and forcefully lift the Man to his feet. HEAVY #1 Get up ya crackhead! The second Heavy yanks the syringe from the Man’s arm and casts it aside. Without compassion they drag him from the room. INT. SLAUGHTER-HOUSE - NIGHT We follow as the Man struggles to keep up, gets marched through the crowd then launched into an opening.

A nit – but it should be blood-soaked, not blood soaked (I miss this one all the time).

While I really admire your efficient writing, sometimes IMO it is a bit too lean. I want to know a little bit more what the rooms look like.

“Man” is a little pedestrian and I think we should know his age. Go with something like FIGHTER, COW HAND, FARMER,  anything other than a  man.  Note – I see a page later you intro him – might consider just doing that right here.

This is ripe for mini slugs – e.g.,

INT. SLAUGHTER-HOUSE – MAIN ROOM - NIGHT

A mass of MEN huddle closely at its center. Glimpses of barbarity. Teeth tearing at flesh. A head rammed into the blood-soaked ground.

SIDE-ROOM  

The crowd’s roar reverberates through. Thirsty for blood. A MAN kneels beside a wall, steadies his hand and carefully thumbs pressure on to the end of a syringe. The substance takes effect. His body goes limp and he falls back against the wall. His leg starts to thrash.

Two HEAVIES enter and forcefully lift the Man to his feet.

HEAVY #1
Get up ya crackhead!

The second Heavy yanks the syringe from the Man’s arm and casts it aside. Without compassion they drag him into the  

MAIN ROOM

The Man struggles to keep up, gets marched through the crowd then launched into an opening.

Quoted Text INT. SQUAT - DAY The room is small, dingy, and other than a mattress and a yellowed sleeping bag, empty. The Man from the previous night is motionless on the mattress. Congealed blood has glued his face to the mattress. His eyes blink into life. He peels himself off and struggles to his feet. His body is covered with cuts and bruises. His name is GAVIN DAVEY, though he’s known locally as MEPH. He’s in his late twenties, but his face has been weathered by a history of abuse: parental abuse, physical abuse, alcohol and drug abuse... all the abuses. Meph dresses himself in overtly branded but poorly fitted clothes then makes his way to the windowsill, pauses, looks out and taps his head against the pane several times. He makes his way downstairs and through the living room where another FIGURE lie asleep beside a couch, and then finally to the kitchen. The cabinets are mostly empty. Some stale bread finds use as breakfast and the remains of a can of cider washes it down. He returns to the living room and softly kicks the Figure on the floor. MEPH What ya on the floor for? I’m gonna get fags. Want some? The Figure groans and turns in his sleeping bag. Meph exits through a kitchen window at the rear of the squat.

Another nit – but you don’t need to start with the Room is – just start with “Small” – the header already tells us it is a room.

I am not quite sure about this one in terms of headers. You’ve taken us to three distinct locations without a change in header – the bedroom, living room and kitchen.  You may want to

consider something like:

INT. SQUAT – BEDROOM - DAY

Small, dingy, and other than a mattress and a yellowed sleeping bag, empty.

The Man from the previous night is motionless on the mattress. Congealed blood has glued his face to the mattress. His eyes blink into life.

He peels himself off and struggles to his feet. His body is covered with cuts and bruises. His name is GAVIN DAVEY, though he’s known locally as MEPH. He’s in his late twenties, but his face has been weathered by a history of abuse: parental abuse, physical abuse, alcohol and drug abuse... all the abuses.

Meph dresses himself in overtly branded but poorly fitted clothes then makes his way to the windowsill, pauses, looks out and taps his head against the pane several times.

LIVING ROOM

A FIGURE  asleep besides a couch. Meph ignores him as he enters and walks towards the

KITCHEN

The cabinets are mostly empty. Some stale bread finds use as breakfast and the remains of a can of cider washes it down.  Meph returns to the

LIVING ROOM

And softly kicks the Figure on the floor.

Anyway - as always - I can generally see what you want me to see - solid writing.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for taking a look and the feed back. I really appreciate it!

I hadn't thought about the slaughterhouse thing, so I'll have a look at that. It's meant to be an abattoir out in the sticks but I'll make sure it's clearer in the next draft.

Blood-soaked. You're right! I'll blame the wife for not picking up that as she's meant to be my proof-reader.

Good point about the "Man" thing. Whilst I don't want to reveal too much on the first page, things like age would help otherwise it's very open to the reader, who might picture some overweight 60 year old in a leotard, which is the opposite of how he is.

Great point with the mini slugs too. I didn't even know what they were when I wrote this, but I'm going to use them way more from now on in everything I write as I like how they look on the page.

Thanks again Dave, I owe you.

Max

Hi EC,

Is "Betta Fish" a suggestion for a title?

I had to google that. Siamese fighting fish. Certainly stands out more!

Perhaps Max, you should look at Urban Dictionary's definition of Betta Fish.
I could be way off.
But, I might be right.

Either way the lack of clarification is surely enigmatic.

Oh Christ, now I don't know what to think!

Either way, it makes a depressing kitchen sink drama sound more trendy and fun... well, maybe.

Quoted from Pleb Hi Dave, Thanks for taking a look and the feed back. I really appreciate it! I hadn't thought about the slaughterhouse thing, so I'll have a look at that. It's meant to be an abattoir out in the sticks but I'll make sure it's clearer in the next draft. Blood-soaked. You're right! I'll blame the wife for not picking up that as she's meant to be my proof-reader. Good point about the "Man" thing. Whilst I don't want to reveal too much on the first page, things like age would help otherwise it's very open to the reader, who might picture some overweight 60 year old in a leotard, which is the opposite of how he is. Great point with the mini slugs too. I didn't even know what they were when I wrote this, but I'm going to use them way more from now on in everything I write as I like how they look on the page. Thanks again Dave, I owe you. Max

My pleasure - your stuff is always an easy read.

On slaughter house - all I think you need is one line - we ought to at least  know if it is active or not. e.g. if it is inactive - something akin to "the rusted hooks from where animal carcasses once hung still dangle from the ceiling."

Anything that clears it up really would work.

@Max

Quoted Text Hope I haven't come across as a massive sexist saying that haha

Yeah, you did.  I'm just messin' wit'cha.

Quoted Text I've only had feedback off guys so far, and it tends to be stuff like "more fights, yeah more fighting".

"Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

Without further ado,

I do not like fighting very much, so a fighting story is not something I would enjoy.  But this is not a fighting story, it is about a fighter.  The underdog story of, a kind-hearted depth factory worker and part-time fighter, who wants a second chance to reconnect with his daughter (Rosie).  GAVIN DAVEY, AKA Meph, is your average tough-guy you see walking down the street, but this story takes a closer look INTO the guy walking past you, and not AT the guy walking past you.  Meph is a common man that I believe audiences will be able to identify themselves with.  We see a man struggling in life, who is dragged down to the ground and humiliated.  By Steven, Phil, and even to some extent...Tanya.  

Despite this, he maintains his positive outlook and manages to get back up.  His incredible willpower allows a factory worker and ex-fighter to “go the distance.”  He lives in a caravan, and he barely makes enough money to support himself. Here's my takeaway:

Methinks the motivational message of this story is to never give up, despite the circumstances. It is a loud and thundering message to all the underdogs out there who are confronted with unbearable opposition.  Maybe in some strange way it inspires us not to accept the status quo, but to fight hard for a positive change.  Even though Meph is hit by many blows that strike him to the ground, he never gives up and always gets back up.  The story shows what persistence really is, and what it means to never give up, no matter what. The story tells us that we often must fight hard for our dreams and that one should never ever allow anyone to stand in between oneself and one’s dreams.  I could be slightly off, but not by much.

The tone throughout is generally quite dark although there are a few light hearted moments, that stop it becoming too grim.  For instance; Clair pushing the care bear at Meph.  Pacing is decent.  The script was often tampered with a lot of foul language... the C**ts & "F" bombs does get overplayed too much, and become a bit annoying as the script drags along. But this is only a minor criticism. I get it.  People swear.  If you refuse to have them swear in situations where they would, then your people won't seem real.  It's a tool that helps characterization... as long as you do not make it a crutch.  The feel-good ending is extremely Hollywood-esque, however it's always refreshing to see such positivity in a story like this.

* Characters. I'll get into them individually.

*Steven:  Not much redeeming about him.  I've got no problem with a controversial character, but they need to have people push back against them... at the bus stop, Steven curses the OLD LADY, asking for information.  Meph just stood by, didn't try and push back.   Several times Steven insulted Tanya, the mother of his daughter.  Again, he stood pat.  Not sure if you ever heard of a TV show "All In the Family."  But...Archie Bunker is the model - he was a stupid racist, but we could laugh at his stupidity, enjoy watching the other characters call him out, and see him lose in the end. (It was an incredibly important element of that show that he was always wrong and always lost.)   Again, Steven is just crude and demeaning, and still wins.  If he's going to have this attitude, there needs to be consequences.  Granted, there are in the end, but...

*Tanya: for most of the first half of the script she's angry, now I'm not going to call her a straight-up feminist, but...she eventually comes around.  I'd like to say dig a little deeper, but we know where she's been.  What's she's been doing the last few years - how she pays the bills, but does she secretly hopes to rekindle their relationship?... It doesn't have to be that, but I think it needs to be *something*...

Quoted Text Three, include intimate sex scene between Meph and Tanya just before she learns that he has resumed fighting; her disappointment here would have been more dramatic.

Ditto.  EC makes a valid point.  I concur.  I think Libby would, too.

*Clair.  I'm not sure you need this character. She doesn’t really add much, and it's a huge broad complication.  She pops in and out, doesn't give helpful advice or perspective... she seems unnecessary.  Those were my initial thoughts until I went back and re-read her scenes. Okie Dokie, keep her, but make her more relevant.  Whatever route you take, make sure it's in the best interest of the story.

*Phil not much to him.  For lack of better words, a deadbeat.  Meph gave him a second chance and Phil showed his true colors, and that's about it.   Not sure I would have given Phil so much screen time.

*Kathy was just a sweet, lovable character.  One, in which, all scripts should have.

Okay, I was going to launch into some representative page notes. Decided not to.  It's gettin late, and I'm exhausted.  Sorry.  

Meph trying to have a relationship with Rosie.  That's your story, right there.  The fighting is just window dressing.  

A personal note: there are watershed moments in our life where we make choices, choices that will spin the way our life will go next.  What your opening scene does is crystallize one of those moments. That's what I really like about it.

To wrap up: on the whole it's very good, the actual plot is well constructed. Of course, this is all from my POV, just one person's thoughts.  Hope it helps in some way, good luck with it.  Forgive my errors.  My 0.2 . Soldier on...

Quoted Text I should probably get more women to read my stuff to get a better spread of...

You just have.  -Andrea.

Hi Andrea,

WOW!

Thanks loads for the read, and thanks even more for sharing your thoughts. If I'm ever fortunate enough to pitch this to a producer, I hope you don't mind if I plagiarise most of what you just wrote? I'm not even kidding by the way. I think you've done a much better job of summarising what it's about than I've been able to do hahaha

Good call on the swearing. I'd actually cut it down already, but will take even more out. I've read stuff before with too many swears and the dialogue quickly started to read like white noise, which I definitely don't want to emulate.

Interesting to see your take on the characters too. Always great to hear someone else's take on them as it can offer up fresh ways of thinking about them.

Right, now I've really got to psych myself up and get back to a rewriting this damn thing! Feel like I owe it to you and everyone else who's taken the time to read it and shared their thoughts and offered feedback... I just regret I thought writing something so depressing would be fun. What the hell was I thinking???

Cheers, I owe you one!

Max

Quoted from Pleb Hi Andrea, WOW! Thanks loads for the read, and thanks even more for sharing your thoughts. If I'm ever fortunate enough to pitch this to a producer, I hope you don't mind if I plagiarise most of what you just wrote?

All yours, baby!  Good luck with it...

I was thinking about how these characters are trapped in socio-economic distressed bubbles, and like a Betta Fish; trapped in a glass goblet, life is stagnate and in continuous misery from which there is no escape!  It's a perfect metaphor!  Thought you would have signed a production deal by now and been on your way to fame and glory --?!

You mentioned feedback from BBC? I tried searching the website but came up short.  Would love to read a different view on the material and any and all progress you have made on the work to date.   Will check back often!

Where are we with this project -?!  I think this would be a perfect vehicle for the Safdie Brothers!